Jack Sharry: Hello everyone. Thank you for joining us on this edition of WealthTech on Deck. Each week, we explore the many challenges and opportunities around the confluence of digital and human advice. We are privileged to do this with leaders across the industry for many different vantage points. I’m looking forward to this conversation with Jen Ball. Jen is the Chief Marketing Officer at Franklin Templeton. Franklin Templeton, I will admit, I’m a huge fan. I love what they’re doing. They’ve broken the mold of what that old school asset manager might have done and is still being done by some others. And, uh, they’ve done, there are many changes in many evolutions that I’ve observed over the years they’ve done in very strategic, smart, and constructive way. Count me in as one of their biggest fans. No, no lie there. I’ve been following their story in the deliberate execution of their strategy for a while. Lots of creative things happening. Jen’s challenge as CMO is developing a narrative around all the different things Franklin Templeton has taken on, not only in the US but across the globe. I think you’ll find this to be a very interesting discussion around the challenges and opportunities of a, what a modern-day asset manager is up to, in terms of changing the game. ’cause frankly, they’ve got to, that’s just the way of the world. So, Jen, welcome to WealthTech on Deck. Good to have you here.

Jennifer Ball: Jack, thank you. I’m thrilled and honored to be here. A huge fan of the podcast. Listen to it all the time.

Jack Sharry: Great. Thank you. Much appreciated. So Jen, let’s start with a high level description of the Franklin Templeton strategy at large. For those who may not be paying close attention, I think your CEO, Jenny Johnson is an incredibly effective leader on so many fronts. Jenny and your leadership team have acquired not only a traditional investment management assets, but you’ve done a lot of in the alternative space as well as I observe, you’ve brought. Together a bunch of tech capabilities and companies, and it looks like you are making that work well as you bring them together. So if you fill us in on the Franklin Templeton strategy, we’ll get to the narrative aspect shortly, but tell us about the basic nuts and bolts and then we’ll talk about how you talk about it.

Jennifer Ball: Sure. So Jack, somebody put a spell on you five years ago, we’ll put you to sleep and you woke up today. You wouldn’t necessarily recognize Franklin Templeton?

Jack Sharry: Yep.

Jennifer Ball: You know, as you said, we’ve made actually 10 acquisitions, I think it is, since Jenny took over as CEO in February, 2020. In the alternative space, we now have capabilities in private real estate, private credit, and private equity. On the secondary side specifically, we’ve acquired and built custom direct indexing capabilities, machine learning powered goals, investing software, which you’re of course familiar with ’cause we’ve worked with you on on that. And then portfolio analytics software as well. We’ve invested heavily in digital assets and ai. We’ve got a strategic partnership with Microsoft on the ladder. And you know, Jenny always talks about our mission, which is to help clients achieve their most important. Milestones and her vision is to deliver everything that our clients need for that today and in the future. On a single global platform.

Jack Sharry: Wow, that’s pretty hefty what you’re taking on there. So obviously that’s a lot. It’s, uh, pretty incredible. You’ve got a lot going on at Franklin Templeton and from where I sit watching it all, ’cause I have, I do a front row seat. We work closely with you guys. It all makes sense. Of course, your job is to connect many dots with a narrative that makes sense for a variety of audits. Not here in the only, here in the us but. Across the globe. So tell us about that. What are you doing to connect those dots to put the story into a coherent and compelling storyline?

Jennifer Ball: Yeah, so it’s interesting because as you mentioned Jack, we have a bunch of different audiences around the world, and then also the positioning that we have in each country or market around the world tends to be different. So, in some countries we’re looking to build awareness and people don’t really know who we are. We’re newer in those markets. In other countries, we’re trying to change the perception of our brand, you know, making sure that it’s aligned with all those new benefits that the, the things I just talked about can deliver to clients. So, you know, we need to make sure that story’s getting out. So you and I were talking about this a couple of months ago, and you introduced me to John Connors at Boathouse, for which I am eternally grateful. He’s been an amazing partner to me, and he’s really suggested a different way of thinking about positioning than maybe the classic consumer packaged good model of a single differentiating feature and benefits that can work really well, you know, for a bar of soap. And a huge budget, but it’s pretty difficult for a complex service business with multiple audiences in different markets around the world with an ever-changing backdrop as well that we call the markets. So John introduced me to a model adapted from Nobel Prize winner Robert Schiller, and the work that he did on narrative economics. The gist of it is thinking about the single ambition that you have for your company, and then you support that with multiple narratives, so you can customize those narratives for different markets, different segments, but the middle, the middle of it all, the center of it all rather, is that ambition that you have. For the company and for your clients.

Jack Sharry: Yeah. Uh, while we’re busy, uh, singing the praises of, uh, Mr. Connors, who’s a good friend of mine, as you know, he also, I, I should note. Works with another friend of ours, friend in common, John Theo, who, uh, headed Merrill years ago and has created a new organization called Indivisible Partners.

Jennifer Ball: Uh, John did similar work, I assume. I don’t know all the details, but, uh, I know he was actively involved with John and his team in creating Indivisible Partners, which is just now going live. It’s, uh, an IRA that for my money is an IRA of the future in terms of how they’re thinking and acting and so forth.

Jack Sharry: And maybe if you talk a little bit more about that process. ’cause I, I went so far as to get the book on Schiller’s Narrative Economics. I got through about, I don’t know, 20 pages. I could not stop falling asleep ’cause it was too dense, I have to admit. So then I got the audio version. Still couldn’t get through it, but fortunately enough.

Jennifer Ball: Connor is a good enough friend that he said Cetera, explained it to me. Maybe you, in your own words, how does this apply to Franklin Templeton? How do you take that sort of the core ambition and how do you then, how does that play out with the, given you have different markets, different products, different audiences, different folks you serve.

Jack Sharry: Uh, talk a little bit about how, how you in Franklin Temple didn’t speak. How do you translate that again, I, I’m assuming you’re in the process of doing all that.

Jennifer Ball: Yeah, and it is a process for sure, Jack, and it’s not one that happens easily. The process for us was really making sure that we talked to all of the client facing leaders and you know, some of the client facing salespeople that we have around the world, just to really understand, you know, what’s resonating with their clients and as they talk about the company, what are the key things that they think they’re bringing to the client? And then really listening to Jenny, like listening, listening to Jenny, the earnings calls, listening to what she says at conferences, and really picking apart like what are the things that are the most important to her? Mm-hmm. How do we really capture that vision and ambition that she has? For the company and she’s, she clearly has a vision that Franklin Templeton will be a change agent for the industry, powered by a legacy of constant evolution at Franklin Templeton. Certainly foremost in the, the early days of Franklin Templeton, we were a trendsetter and that really is what she’s trying to achieve for the company, and then how we deliver that. We wanna be a trusted partner to our clients. In a changing world, an evolving world, that is really what we’re striving to be.

Jack Sharry: Yep, yep.

Jennifer Ball: And then, you know, there are a number of different ways that we’re trying to do that. Number one is we have the breadth and depth of investment capabilities, given the challenges that you have as a client at any given point in time. We partner with you. So that we can bring the relevant bits of that to you, depending on what your challenge is. So we’re very partnership driven.

Jack Sharry: Yep, yep.

Jennifer Ball: We also innovate with delivery and service, so really thinking about what our different clients are trying to achieve, how can we innovate with them to deliver the services that they are needing to for their clients and help them achieve what they’re trying to do. And then on the technology and ops side, we’re trying to. Raise all boats. So some of the stuff that Jenny is leading on blockchain, thinking about efficiency for the industry, we’re sharing that with clients and I know you had Sandy call on, she probably talked a lot about that when she was on your show, and I will go back and listen to that episode because I missed it. That’s a huge part of what we think we can bring to clients as well, is just our learnings and sharing those. So all of those narratives may or may not be live in different markets at any given point in time, but that’s what we’ve kind of come to Jack. Then this is another fair thing I learned from John. We can really put listening software at the center of our strategy. So that we are hearing how our narratives are playing out in the market and using that feedback, mm-hmm To spark new narratives, join narratives that are already live in the market, and then monitor situations that may be affecting our narratives going forward.

Jack Sharry: So if I may be so bold, I’m gonna translate what you’re saying. ’cause our, I think there’s a predisposition, prejudice, call it in our industry that marketing is just about promoting stuff. It’s about pretty pictures and saying nice things about your wonderful products and so on. I think we’re hopefully beyond that. What I see, still see a lot about where figure the product is, the answer and what I observed that’s interesting about Franklin Templeton, it really is a top down strategy and I. Very clearly. I’ve seen for some time, I’ve been following Jenny now for a few years, uh, as she’s been the CEO where she really, you can, I kind of, especially on LinkedIn and other social media platforms. I follow what she says and clearly she’s leading from the field, so to speak. She’s out in the marketplace, whether it’s in Singapore, I mean, I’ve just followed her around the world. And she’s always communicating what’s important. You know, the mission, all that you’re doing, and then as you’re describing the work you’re doing with John Connors at Boathouse presently, he starts with listening. I know that’s part of his process. Listening to the marketplace. Then specific with an ear toward how. Franklin Templeton has been perceived how it’s perceived relative to its competitors. I know you went through a whole exercise, I’m assuming you’re doing the same thing he does with most firms. It’s a listening exercise, really finding out where you fit.

Jennifer Ball: Yeah, where there are gaps, where there are opportunities, shall we say. And then working to develop. Those many narratives. ’cause depending who you’re talking to, whether you’re talking to a defined contribution partner or you’re talking to a broker dealer partner, or you’re talking to an RIA partner, or whoever, the various folks that you all serve, the narrative shifts a little bit.

Jack Sharry: It’s a different narrative, but a lot of the same common elements. So I, by explaining that right, more trying to help our audience understand, ’cause this is in my way of thinking, this is the new way of marketing. But maybe if you’d weigh it, I think it is.

Jennifer Ball: Jack, it’s the new way. And it’s flexible too, right? Because as things change with your clients, with the market, you can evolve your narratives to make sure that they stay relevant and still support your overall mission and your ambition for the company. And you can dial them up or down in different markets depending on what’s happening in those markets and the type of client that you’re speaking to as well. So you’re absolutely hitting the nail on the head. With your description and you know, it’s interesting, you know when you’ve got something, when all of the sales teams around the world are excited about how we can bring this to market, and…

Jack Sharry: Yes.

Jennifer Ball: …this is not a marketing exercise, this is a company exercise. How do we tell our story as proud Franklin Templeton employees and what we know we can bring our clients? Jenny has this great. Saying that I think she has from her father, but it’s take care of the client and everything else takes care of itself. And that’s sort of the ethos that goes through Franklin Templeton under her leadership.

Jack Sharry: Super smart. One of the other things I would just add, you’ve said it. Somewhat implicitly, but I’ll say more explicitly. ’cause I think it’s so important that really what you’re describing is a conversation with a marketplace. Yeah. And those various audiences. ’cause they’re, you have a wide variety of audience audiences, not only globally, but also certainly product segments and so on and so forth. Whether it’s technology or product or investment strategy or solutions or all the, you know, got a lot of stuff going on. We. Dug into all that. There’s a lot there, but how do you maintain a sort of a conversation where you continue to listen, you continue to, to share the narrative, see what resonates to you, what might have evolved or changed or needs to be adjusted. But I think I’m getting that right.

Jennifer Ball: Right. Absolutely. It’s not a one-time thing. It’s an ongoing conversation that evolves and, and changes over time.

Jack Sharry: Cool. So let’s talk about making a reel. So you are, have been through a lot of the sort of tee up work. I dunno what the right term is there either, but you’ve learned a lot. You’re getting ready to, I would imagine, to launch something here. So talk a little bit about what’s next. What should we be looking at looking for as things evolve at Franklin Templeton?

Jennifer Ball: So it’s probably gonna look a little bit different depending on what market you happen to be in, Jack. But we are working across the organization on activating the narrative. So the first thing is making sure that we share them and get everybody on the leadership team comfortable with what they are so that we can focus on these narratives. In each of the markets as they are appropriate and, and I think equally important, shy away from things that aren’t associated with the narratives.

Jack Sharry: Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Ball: You know, it can be tempting to talk about all things all the time, but when you’re trying to be. Specifically understood for different things that you can bring the client. I think you have to exercise a little bit of restraint in terms of what you talk about in, in, uh, the media and social media and conferences, all the different touch points that we have. So we’ll be. Trading it a little bit different in every market. So that’s something we’re working on locally. It’s not a one size fits all situation in the us. We’ll be trying to spark some of these narratives through some advertising. We haven’t done a lot of advertising over the last few years, but now with this story, we feel like we’re in a really good place to go out and make sure that our clients know about how we can help them. And, uh, we’ll be doing that in January. We’re also trying to bring the narratives to life through social media activities. So we’re trying to supercharge our social media with a new team on the lead to help that happen. So it’s really across all the different channels that we have, all the different touch points, Jack that we have, and doing what’s appropriate in each market. To spark those narratives and feed narratives that are already narratives that we wanna be part of.

Jack Sharry: So I love this. Um, I’m a student of this ability to communicate. We try to do a little bit of it with, uh, with Lifey and with this podcast. Actually, it’s fascinating to watch the kind of impact I was sharing with you before we went on this, started recording this podcast that we’re up. We’ve been at this now for. Three and a half years roughly, and 180 episodes. And just to give folks a sense of how things continue to grow and evolve, we’re up to 22,000 listeners and 50,000 downloads on this little podcast. And then there’s social media that goes with it. Frankly, there are two sides of the same coin. Our podcast would not exist without social media, so I’m, I’m always interested to watch how firms take on social media because. I’ll be honest, most aren’t very good at it. You know, it’s a challenge to do it well, we’re fortunate. Our producer of all of our podcasts, a guy named Matt, Matt Nollman, is uh, who’s taking care of you and I today on this little podcast is real, really gets it and really is educated us all on how to do that. So tell me more about your social media strategy. ’cause it’s not just about talking about how great you are, it’s really about driving that message and delivering on the narrative. So talk about that if you would. I’ve always found that to be a challenge.

Jennifer Ball: We’re really just at the, the beginning stages, I would say, Jack, of our social media strategy. So we started by hiring, who I think is a, a great leader. We’ve just brought on board a couple of months ago and he’s helping shape what the strategy is gonna look like, but we’re establishing a center of excellence under his leadership. And the idea is that. He’ll provide the overall strategy and the governance for social media, but we really want to enable all of the regions around the world, all the countries around the world, to do what the right thing is to activate the narratives locally. So, you know, it’s the same philosophy as I just went through with the narratives. We are not all things to all clients. We are trying to be the partner that they can trust. Because we bring them what’s relevant, and this extends to social media as well. So there’s that center of excellence. And then there’s also making sure that we can get all of our internal employees interested in playing a big part.

Jack Sharry: Interesting. Playing a big role in the social media strategy, and that’s through a really intentional content strategy for each individual. At its best, so we have a long way to go there, but I’m really excited about the vision and about what we can do. I’m also excited about using that listening software I referred to earlier to measure how well we’re doing.

Jennifer Ball: So you know, we can set up what people are saying about us in the media, in social media. Around the world and then tell if we are doing a good job at getting the narratives that we’ve set out as being important for the company and for our clients. Are those the things people are talking about or are they talking about entirely different things and we’re missing the mark? We can, you know, shift our strategy that way.

Jack Sharry: Interesting. So again, I’m gonna do a little translating and just affirm or deny. So you, you’ve done the infrastructure build, you acquired various, uh, asset management firms, various product capabilities, investment capabilities, technology capabilities. You’ve partnered, you’ve acquired both.

Jennifer Ball: So you have the sort of the core, the, the substance of what is your offer. You’ve been on a sophisticated listening tour. Analyzing where you fit in the marketplace. Uh, in terms of seeing where Franklin Temple Templeton sits today. By analyzing, I happen to know this approach pretty well, ’cause Connors and I have talked about it a bunch, but you’ve studied well, where you fit, where you’re strong, where you’re not as strong, and where you, your narrative resonates and where it doesn’t.

Jack Sharry: I’m assuming that’s all part of what you did. And now what you’re doing is you’re going out to tell the story. Whether it’s through your wholesalers, through people in the field, various sales folks, it’s through your center of excellence around social media. Am I getting that right? But if you would refine what I just said is validate we’re accurate and correct. We’re not.

Jennifer Ball: Yeah. You’ve got it. So the whole process of listening to our own internal employees, to Jenny, to our clients, to our competition is absolutely the foundation of the work that we did. What felt true to us in terms of where we’re trying to go, that’s another really important part of it. Yes. Now we’ve done, after having done all that work, we’re ready to go into the market with these narratives. We need to bring them to life through all of the touch points that we have through every single sales person that we have, ideally, every single employee who. Talks to people every day. You know, every employee talks to different people every day. What do they say about Franklin Templeton? Mm-hmm. And then what do we say at conferences? What do we say in the media? What do we say in our advertising? What do we say in social media? These are all things that are now being coordinated, but not the same way across all markets. It’s really important to us too. Take the right message out to the right markets around the world. Exciting.

Jack Sharry: Yeah. Where you go from here, you’re gonna be launching, sounds like in January. You got things underway, you got a lot of work ahead. I’m expecting that you’re gonna be learning as you go. Talk a little bit about where you see this taking over, how this will play out over the next year or two as you I am quite sure. Continue to learn through the process.

Jennifer Ball: I think that’s key, Jack. We we’re going live with our. In January and honestly before that, we’ll start testing different things in different markets, but I think we just have to continue listening as we have. Finding out what’s resonating, maybe what’s not resonating, and what kinds of things we can do to really help that messaging resonate where it’s working.

Jack Sharry: Mm-hmm. Get behind it in different ways, which is really exciting for a marketer to do, as you know, because we can help amplify things that are working really well and make sure that we’re leaning into those things and. And hopefully help steer away from things that maybe aren’t resonating as well.

Jennifer Ball: Great. If you can measure these things, because then you can, you can make sure that you continue to improve.

Jack Sharry: Yeah, and I, I’ve talked to some of your execs on other matters and I know it’s one of those things where so many good things are were happening, but it was hard to talk about it ’cause the dependence on where you sat, that was your perspective on Franklin Templeton.

Jennifer Ball: It was, everyone was at a different angle in terms of the different parts of your business and how there wasn’t sort of a common theme, there wasn’t that common narrative sounds like you’ve landed on. So it sounds like you’ve really made a lot of progress in terms of setting yourselves up. Of course now there’s the doing, the doing.

Jack Sharry: So I, I, I wish you well on this. This is, uh, really fascinating to watch. Uh, I will continue to applaud from afar.

Jennifer Ball: Thank you. Yeah, it, it’s exciting. There’s a lot of work that went into it already. There’s probably a lot more that’s going to go into it over the next little while, and that’s exciting for me. I mean, really exciting work and I think everyone’s really energized by it because like you said, there was not a lot of certainty on how to talk about the story. I think there was a lot of excitement about all the capabilities that we have to deliver to clients, but really a lack of clarity on how to do that in the best way.

Jack Sharry: Yep. I. And, and also frankly, you were creating a new model. You know, your, your approach to the business was new. So how do you talk about something new? And again, where from where you, wherever one sits, it’s a different angle. It’s a different take, and it’s hard to tell as big a story as the Franklin Templeton story is, in my mind, it’s hard to tell it effectively as it’s being literally made up on the fly so to speak. So this has been great, Jen. I’ve really enjoyed the conversation. As we look to wrap up, any key takeaways you’d like to share with our audience on the broader topic of, uh, communicating, uh, new and cool stuff that Franklin Templeton is up to?

Jennifer Ball: So I think number one, Jack, this narratives model that John introduced me to can be a super empowering way to manage your firm’s messaging and story.

Jack Sharry: So. Now, I would encourage everybody to think about that going forward as marketers or really as anybody who’s carrying a message. Number two, we didn’t actually really talk about this too much, but we all have to figure out how to use AI to transform our business. Mm-hmm. We’re at an inflection point right now, and I think AI can play a huge role in personalizing storytelling.

Jennifer Ball: So as we take these narratives out to the model, how do we use it? AI to refine some of the specifics around what we’re saying. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And number three, just. We’re so lucky in this industry for all the partnerships and friendships that we have and, you know, including you, Jack, I think the things that are possible when we bring, you know, unique skill sets together, it’s, it’s just amazing what we can achieve. So just wanted to say that as well, and thank you for your help.

Jack Sharry: Yeah, well, thank you. This is, uh, as you know, partners, uh, help partners and so, um, it’s been a great relationship and I think much more to come. I think you guys are. I’ve always thought you’re, you’re poised to take off, but I think you’ve really done the hard work that you’ve been doing over the past year or so, whatever it’s been, you’re not poised and ready. So I’m, I look forward to applauding you actively. So looking forward to that. So, one last thing. My favorite question on, on our podcast, what do you do outside of work that people might find interesting or surprising that you’re particularly passionate about or excited about? So, please tell us about what you do and you’re not promoting Franklin Templeton and all that goes with that.

Jennifer Ball: So right now this, I have a particular obsession, which is trying to figure out how to optimize my health and all the toys and data that I can use to help me do that. Jack, it may have been instigated by a little bit of insomnia that I was having, but um, I’ve the early adopter of, of the aura ring, I don’t know if you’ve heard of the aura ring.

Jack Sharry: No.

Jennifer Ball: But it helps you measure your sleep quality and then you can associate different. Factors with good and bad sleep and it measures your heart rate, your steps, tracks your workouts, all the good stuff that watches and fitness trackers do. But it’s been tiny little ring, which is awesome.

Jack Sharry: Oh, interesting.

Jennifer Ball: Yeah. And then, you know, another little toy that I’ve been using is a continuous glucose monitor. So thankfully I don’t have, uh, diabetes, but there’s this company called Levels that helps you use a continuous glucose monitor to associate. What you eat and when you exercise with your glucose levels, and I’ve really found how.

Jack Sharry: Yep.

Jennifer Ball: You know, evening those out can affect my energy level and my sleep as well. And then, um, I have this sauna bag. It’s like a sleeping bag that it’s a sauna. My husband calls it the burrito. You crawl into it and it delivers an infrared sauna experience in a little sleeping bag, and it’s super relaxing.

Jack Sharry: Oh, wow.

Jennifer Ball: Yeah. And I’ll pop on, you know, a podcast like yours. Well, I’m in there and then I’m, I get out relaxed and informed and it’s pretty awesome.

Jack Sharry: That’s great. I shouldn’t tell my wife about any of this because she’ll wanna go out and get all of those. She’s a forever student of health and well-being.

Jennifer Ball: So fun and, you know. All of those things have really helped my sleep, which helps me be better every day for sure.

Jack Sharry: That’s great. Good for you. Yeah. That’s terrific. So…

Jennifer Ball: Yeah.

Jack Sharry: Jen, this has been, uh, terrific. Really have enjoyed our conversation. Uh, not only today’s podcast, but leading up to it. I’ve learned a lot through this process, so it’s been quite enjoyable. For our audience, thank you for tuning in. If you’ve enjoyed our podcast, please rate, review, subscribe, and share what we’re doing here at Wealthtech on Deck. We’re available wherever, get your podcasts. You should also check us out on our new dedicated website, wealth Tech on deck.com. All of our episodes are there, along with blogs and curated content from many folks around the industry. So Jen, thanks again. It’s been a real pleasure. I’ve enjoyed it very much.

Jennifer Ball: Thanks, Jack, so much fun. Appreciate what you’re doing and thanks for having me on podcast.